1 1.1 cgd From: James A. Woods <jaw (a] eos.arc.nasa.gov> 2 1.1 cgd 3 1.1 cgd >From vn Fri Dec 2 18:05:27 1988 4 1.1 cgd Subject: Re: Looking for C source for RSA 5 1.1 cgd Newsgroups: sci.crypt 6 1.1 cgd 7 1.1 cgd # Illegitimi noncarborundum 8 1.1 cgd 9 1.1 cgd Patents are a tar pit. 10 1.1 cgd 11 1.1 cgd A good case can be made that most are just a license to sue, and nothing 12 1.1 cgd is illegal until a patent is upheld in court. 13 1.1 cgd 14 1.1 cgd For example, if you receive netnews by means other than 'nntp', 15 1.1 cgd these very words are being modulated by 'compress', 16 1.1 cgd a variation on the patented Lempel-Ziv-Welch algorithm. 17 1.1 cgd 18 1.1 cgd Original Ziv-Lempel is patent number 4,464,650, and the more powerful 19 1.1 cgd LZW method is #4,558,302. Yet despite any similarities between 'compress' 20 1.1 cgd and LZW (the public-domain 'compress' code was designed and given to the 21 1.1 cgd world before the ink on the Welch patent was dry), no attorneys from Sperry 22 1.1 cgd (the assignee) have asked you to unplug your Usenet connection. 23 1.1 cgd 24 1.1 cgd Why? I can't speak for them, but it is possible the claims are too broad, 25 1.1 cgd or, just as bad, not broad enough. ('compress' does things not mentioned 26 1.1 cgd in the Welch patent.) Maybe they realize that they can commercialize 27 1.1 cgd LZW better by selling hardware implementations rather than by licensing 28 1.1 cgd software. Again, the LZW software delineated in the patent is *not* 29 1.1 cgd the same as that of 'compress'. 30 1.1 cgd 31 1.1 cgd At any rate, court-tested software patents are a different animal; 32 1.1 cgd corporate patents in a portfolio are usually traded like baseball cards 33 1.1 cgd to shut out small fry rather than actually be defended before 34 1.1 cgd non-technical juries. Perhaps RSA will undergo this test successfully, 35 1.1 cgd although the grant to "exclude others from making, using, or selling" 36 1.1 cgd the invention would then only apply to the U.S. (witness the 37 1.1 cgd Genentech patent of the TPA molecule in the U.S. but struck down 38 1.1 cgd in Great Britain as too broad.) 39 1.1 cgd 40 1.1 cgd The concept is still exotic for those who learned in school the rule of thumb 41 1.1 cgd that one may patent "apparatus" but not an "idea". 42 1.1 cgd Apparently this all changed in Diamond v. Diehr (1981) when the U. S. Supreme 43 1.1 cgd Court reversed itself. 44 1.1 cgd 45 1.1 cgd Scholars should consult the excellent article in the Washington and Lee 46 1.1 cgd Law Review (fall 1984, vol. 41, no. 4) by Anthony and Colwell for a 47 1.1 cgd comprehensive survey of an area which will remain murky for some time. 48 1.1 cgd 49 1.1 cgd Until the dust clears, how you approach ideas which are patented depends 50 1.1 cgd on how paranoid you are of a legal onslaught. Arbitrary? Yes. But 51 1.2 soren the patent bar the CCPA (Court of Customs and Patent Appeals) 52 1.1 cgd thanks you for any uncertainty as they, at least, stand to gain 53 1.1 cgd from any trouble. 54 1.1 cgd 55 1.1 cgd =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 56 1.1 cgd From: James A. Woods <jaw (a] eos.arc.nasa.gov> 57 1.1 cgd Subject: Re: Looking for C source for RSA (actually 'compress' patents) 58 1.1 cgd 59 1.1 cgd In article <2042 (a] eos.UUCP> you write: 60 1.1 cgd >The concept is still exotic for those who learned in school the rule of thumb 61 1.1 cgd >that one may patent "apparatus" but not an "idea". 62 1.1 cgd 63 1.1 cgd A rule of thumb that has never been completely valid, as any chemical 64 1.1 cgd engineer can tell you. (Chemical processes were among the earliest patents, 65 1.1 cgd as I recall.) 66 1.1 cgd 67 1.1 cgd ah yes -- i date myself when relaying out-of-date advice from elderly 68 1.1 cgd attorneys who don't even specialize in patents. one other interesting 69 1.1 cgd class of patents include the output of optical lens design programs, 70 1.1 cgd which yield formulae which can then fairly directly can be molded 71 1.1 cgd into glass. although there are restrictions on patenting equations, 72 1.1 cgd the "embedded systems" seem to fly past the legal gauntlets. 73 1.1 cgd 74 1.1 cgd anyway, i'm still learning about intellectual property law after 75 1.1 cgd several conversations from a unisys (nee sperry) lawyer re 'compress'. 76 1.1 cgd 77 1.1 cgd it's more complicated than this, but they're letting (oral 78 1.1 cgd communication only) software versions of 'compress' slide 79 1.1 cgd as far as licensing fees go. this includes 'arc', 'stuffit', 80 1.1 cgd and other commercial wrappers for 'compress'. yet they are 81 1.1 cgd signing up licensees for hardware chips. hewlett-packard 82 1.1 cgd supposedly has an active vlsi project, and unisys has 83 1.1 cgd board-level lzw-based tape controllers. (to build lzw into 84 1.1 cgd a disk controller would be strange, as you'd have to build 85 1.1 cgd in a filesystem too!) 86 1.1 cgd 87 1.1 cgd it's byzantine 88 1.1 cgd that unisys is in a tiff with hp regarding the patents, 89 1.1 cgd after discovering some sort of "compress" button on some 90 1.1 cgd hp terminal product. why? well, professor abraham lempel jumped 91 1.1 cgd from being department chairman of computer science at technion in 92 1.1 cgd israel to sperry (where he got the first patent), but then to work 93 1.1 cgd at hewlett-packard on sabbatical. the second welch patent 94 1.1 cgd is only weakly derivative of the first, so they want chip 95 1.1 cgd licenses and hp relented. however, everyone agrees something 96 1.1 cgd like the current unix implementation is the way to go with 97 1.1 cgd software, so hp (and ucb) long ago asked spencer thomas and i to sign 98 1.1 cgd off on copyright permission (although they didn't need to, it being pd). 99 1.1 cgd lempel, hp, and unisys grumbles they can't make money off the 100 1.1 cgd software since a good free implementation (not the best -- 101 1.1 cgd i have more ideas!) escaped via usenet. (lempel's own pascal 102 1.1 cgd code was apparently horribly slow.) 103 1.1 cgd i don't follow the ibm 'arc' legal bickering; my impression 104 1.1 cgd is that the pc folks are making money off the archiver/wrapper 105 1.1 cgd look/feel of the thing [if ms-dos can be said to have a look and feel]. 106 1.1 cgd 107 1.1 cgd now where is telebit with the compress firmware? in a limbo 108 1.1 cgd netherworld, probably, with sperry still welcoming outfits 109 1.1 cgd to sign patent licenses, a common tactic to bring other small fry 110 1.3 andvar into the fold. the guy who crammed 12-bit compress into the modem 111 1.1 cgd there left. also what is transpiring with 'compress' and sys 5 rel 4? 112 1.1 cgd beats me, but if sperry got a hold of them on these issues, 113 1.1 cgd at&t would likely re-implement another algorithm if they 114 1.1 cgd thought 'compress' infringes. needful to say, i don't think 115 1.1 cgd it does after the abovementioned legal conversation. 116 1.1 cgd my own beliefs on whether algorithms should be patentable at all 117 1.1 cgd change with the weather. if the courts finally nail down 118 1.1 cgd patent protection for algorithms, academic publication in 119 1.1 cgd textbooks will be somewhat at odds with the engineering world, 120 1.1 cgd where the textbook codes will simply be a big tease to get 121 1.1 cgd money into the patent holder coffers... 122 1.1 cgd 123 1.1 cgd oh, if you implement lzw from the patent, you won't get 124 1.1 cgd good rates because it doesn't mention adaptive table reset, 125 1.1 cgd lack thereof being *the* serious deficiency of thomas' first version. 126 1.1 cgd 127 1.1 cgd now i know that patent law generally protects against independent 128 1.1 cgd re-invention (like the 'xor' hash function pleasantly mentioned 129 1.1 cgd in the patent [but not the paper]). 130 1.1 cgd but the upshot is that if anyone ever wanted to sue us, 131 1.1 cgd we're partially covered with 132 1.1 cgd independently-developed twists, plus the fact that some of us work 133 1.1 cgd in a bureacratic morass (as contractor to a public agency in my case). 134 1.1 cgd 135 1.1 cgd quite a mess, huh? i've wanted to tell someone this stuff 136 1.1 cgd for a long time, for posterity if nothing else. 137 1.1 cgd 138 1.1 cgd james 139 1.1 cgd 140