11.1ScgdFrom: James A. Woods <jaw@eos.arc.nasa.gov> 21.1Scgd 31.1Scgd>From vn Fri Dec 2 18:05:27 1988 41.1ScgdSubject: Re: Looking for C source for RSA 51.1ScgdNewsgroups: sci.crypt 61.1Scgd 71.1Scgd# Illegitimi noncarborundum 81.1Scgd 91.1ScgdPatents are a tar pit. 101.1Scgd 111.1ScgdA good case can be made that most are just a license to sue, and nothing 121.1Scgdis illegal until a patent is upheld in court. 131.1Scgd 141.1ScgdFor example, if you receive netnews by means other than 'nntp', 151.1Scgdthese very words are being modulated by 'compress', 161.1Scgda variation on the patented Lempel-Ziv-Welch algorithm. 171.1Scgd 181.1ScgdOriginal Ziv-Lempel is patent number 4,464,650, and the more powerful 191.1ScgdLZW method is #4,558,302. Yet despite any similarities between 'compress' 201.1Scgdand LZW (the public-domain 'compress' code was designed and given to the 211.1Scgdworld before the ink on the Welch patent was dry), no attorneys from Sperry 221.1Scgd(the assignee) have asked you to unplug your Usenet connection. 231.1Scgd 241.1ScgdWhy? I can't speak for them, but it is possible the claims are too broad, 251.1Scgdor, just as bad, not broad enough. ('compress' does things not mentioned 261.1Scgdin the Welch patent.) Maybe they realize that they can commercialize 271.1ScgdLZW better by selling hardware implementations rather than by licensing 281.1Scgdsoftware. Again, the LZW software delineated in the patent is *not* 291.1Scgdthe same as that of 'compress'. 301.1Scgd 311.1ScgdAt any rate, court-tested software patents are a different animal; 321.1Scgdcorporate patents in a portfolio are usually traded like baseball cards 331.1Scgdto shut out small fry rather than actually be defended before 341.1Scgdnon-technical juries. Perhaps RSA will undergo this test successfully, 351.1Scgdalthough the grant to "exclude others from making, using, or selling" 361.1Scgdthe invention would then only apply to the U.S. (witness the 371.1ScgdGenentech patent of the TPA molecule in the U.S. but struck down 381.1Scgdin Great Britain as too broad.) 391.1Scgd 401.1ScgdThe concept is still exotic for those who learned in school the rule of thumb 411.1Scgdthat one may patent "apparatus" but not an "idea". 421.1ScgdApparently this all changed in Diamond v. Diehr (1981) when the U. S. Supreme 431.1ScgdCourt reversed itself. 441.1Scgd 451.1ScgdScholars should consult the excellent article in the Washington and Lee 461.1ScgdLaw Review (fall 1984, vol. 41, no. 4) by Anthony and Colwell for a 471.1Scgdcomprehensive survey of an area which will remain murky for some time. 481.1Scgd 491.1ScgdUntil the dust clears, how you approach ideas which are patented depends 501.1Scgdon how paranoid you are of a legal onslaught. Arbitrary? Yes. But 511.2Ssorenthe patent bar the CCPA (Court of Customs and Patent Appeals) 521.1Scgdthanks you for any uncertainty as they, at least, stand to gain 531.1Scgdfrom any trouble. 541.1Scgd 551.1Scgd=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 561.1ScgdFrom: James A. Woods <jaw@eos.arc.nasa.gov> 571.1ScgdSubject: Re: Looking for C source for RSA (actually 'compress' patents) 581.1Scgd 591.1Scgd In article <2042@eos.UUCP> you write: 601.1Scgd >The concept is still exotic for those who learned in school the rule of thumb 611.1Scgd >that one may patent "apparatus" but not an "idea". 621.1Scgd 631.1ScgdA rule of thumb that has never been completely valid, as any chemical 641.1Scgdengineer can tell you. (Chemical processes were among the earliest patents, 651.1Scgdas I recall.) 661.1Scgd 671.1Scgd ah yes -- i date myself when relaying out-of-date advice from elderly 681.1Scgd attorneys who don't even specialize in patents. one other interesting 691.1Scgd class of patents include the output of optical lens design programs, 701.1Scgd which yield formulae which can then fairly directly can be molded 711.1Scgd into glass. although there are restrictions on patenting equations, 721.1Scgd the "embedded systems" seem to fly past the legal gauntlets. 731.1Scgd 741.1Scgd anyway, i'm still learning about intellectual property law after 751.1Scgd several conversations from a unisys (nee sperry) lawyer re 'compress'. 761.1Scgd 771.1Scgd it's more complicated than this, but they're letting (oral 781.1Scgd communication only) software versions of 'compress' slide 791.1Scgd as far as licensing fees go. this includes 'arc', 'stuffit', 801.1Scgd and other commercial wrappers for 'compress'. yet they are 811.1Scgd signing up licensees for hardware chips. hewlett-packard 821.1Scgd supposedly has an active vlsi project, and unisys has 831.1Scgd board-level lzw-based tape controllers. (to build lzw into 841.1Scgd a disk controller would be strange, as you'd have to build 851.1Scgd in a filesystem too!) 861.1Scgd 871.1Scgd it's byzantine 881.1Scgd that unisys is in a tiff with hp regarding the patents, 891.1Scgd after discovering some sort of "compress" button on some 901.1Scgd hp terminal product. why? well, professor abraham lempel jumped 911.1Scgd from being department chairman of computer science at technion in 921.1Scgd israel to sperry (where he got the first patent), but then to work 931.1Scgd at hewlett-packard on sabbatical. the second welch patent 941.1Scgd is only weakly derivative of the first, so they want chip 951.1Scgd licenses and hp relented. however, everyone agrees something 961.1Scgd like the current unix implementation is the way to go with 971.1Scgd software, so hp (and ucb) long ago asked spencer thomas and i to sign 981.1Scgd off on copyright permission (although they didn't need to, it being pd). 991.1Scgd lempel, hp, and unisys grumbles they can't make money off the 1001.1Scgd software since a good free implementation (not the best -- 1011.1Scgd i have more ideas!) escaped via usenet. (lempel's own pascal 1021.1Scgd code was apparently horribly slow.) 1031.1Scgd i don't follow the ibm 'arc' legal bickering; my impression 1041.1Scgd is that the pc folks are making money off the archiver/wrapper 1051.1Scgd look/feel of the thing [if ms-dos can be said to have a look and feel]. 1061.1Scgd 1071.1Scgd now where is telebit with the compress firmware? in a limbo 1081.1Scgd netherworld, probably, with sperry still welcoming outfits 1091.1Scgd to sign patent licenses, a common tactic to bring other small fry 1101.3Sandvar into the fold. the guy who crammed 12-bit compress into the modem 1111.1Scgd there left. also what is transpiring with 'compress' and sys 5 rel 4? 1121.1Scgd beats me, but if sperry got a hold of them on these issues, 1131.1Scgd at&t would likely re-implement another algorithm if they 1141.1Scgd thought 'compress' infringes. needful to say, i don't think 1151.1Scgd it does after the abovementioned legal conversation. 1161.1Scgd my own beliefs on whether algorithms should be patentable at all 1171.1Scgd change with the weather. if the courts finally nail down 1181.1Scgd patent protection for algorithms, academic publication in 1191.1Scgd textbooks will be somewhat at odds with the engineering world, 1201.1Scgd where the textbook codes will simply be a big tease to get 1211.1Scgd money into the patent holder coffers... 1221.1Scgd 1231.1Scgd oh, if you implement lzw from the patent, you won't get 1241.1Scgd good rates because it doesn't mention adaptive table reset, 1251.1Scgd lack thereof being *the* serious deficiency of thomas' first version. 1261.1Scgd 1271.1Scgd now i know that patent law generally protects against independent 1281.1Scgd re-invention (like the 'xor' hash function pleasantly mentioned 1291.1Scgd in the patent [but not the paper]). 1301.1Scgd but the upshot is that if anyone ever wanted to sue us, 1311.1Scgd we're partially covered with 1321.1Scgd independently-developed twists, plus the fact that some of us work 1331.1Scgd in a bureacratic morass (as contractor to a public agency in my case). 1341.1Scgd 1351.1Scgd quite a mess, huh? i've wanted to tell someone this stuff 1361.1Scgd for a long time, for posterity if nothing else. 1371.1Scgd 1381.1Scgdjames 1391.1Scgd 140